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New Board Update for V1

Posted by Boris 
New Board Update for V1
March 15, 2016 05:29PM
I wanted to follow up on this. It seems V2 is shipping with FabMo so the boards are available. How can V1 owners get the updated boards ?

We have been waiting for this pretty much since we bought the machine, would love to know.

Thank you.
Re: New Board Update for V1
March 24, 2016 12:53PM
I would very much appreciate some kind of response from Handibot folks.
Re: New Board Update for V1
March 25, 2016 02:33AM
I don't know why you have been ignored Boris but here is my take for what it is worth.

FabMo is going to be quite a bit bulkier than V1 so I don't think you will be able to do a 1.x plus FabMo due to a lack of room. On the other hand it has been suggested that they are planing to offer a 1.x to 2.0 trade in program.
Re: New Board Update for V1
March 25, 2016 10:31AM

I'm sorry that you haven't received a timely response. We've been trying to work on a plan for distributing FabMo cards and I've been a bit hesitant to make a statement about it until we've got more of the details worked out. The FabMo card uses a wifi transmitter on the Edison card (mounted on the back of the fabmo card). This works well on the new handibot with its transparent electronics enclosure. Our electronics guys are testing different antennas that would allow for good communication through the metal enclosure of the handibot v1.

I'm actually sitting in a meeting discussing these issues right now. I will update you here as soon as I have more useful information. Thank you for your patience...

Re: New Board Update for V1
March 26, 2016 02:23PM
@Mark yes I read that and it sounds acceptible.

At this point we are 2 years going on 3rd waiting for something that was promised in the beginning as one of the game changer features and was not made very clear that was not actually going to be there. I have tried to make due and do what I can with the machine, but this actually makes this machine tough to use.

I keep running into the issue of using Handibot because it requires windows. I had 2 tablets Dell and Asus which stopped working, I tried working from VM as well but this is always something that stops me from using my handibot as my developer machine cannot be tethered to handibot and has other uses. There is basically always bunch of steps I have to go through to get everything ready for cutting which basically stops me majority of the time. On other hand Carvey, Makerbot and others. I can just print. Having a dedicated windows machine while not impossible, is a pain as well as it breaks down my workflow.

I would be more than happy with V1 => V2 trade in. My worry here is that the post about V1 for V2 trade in said they will build something like 2 at a time, and then when those are traded they will build 2 more or something out of used parts. If past experience is any indication of how long this is going to take, my fear is that the V3 or V4 is probably going to be out by the time we are able to trade in the device.

I do not want to feel like a nuisance or a whiny customer to the Handibot and Shopbot folks but at this point I definitely feel that early adopters and pre-order guys who supported this project are an after thought and less important than new customers or big customers or what have you. I give a benefit of the doubt and certainly hope this is just due to complexity of the issues, etc etc... But at the same time, there is nothing that is going to kill a community better than doing that.

@Brian I appreciate a response. I even submitted a support request through the website and someone got back to me and said they had to get some more information and I followed up twice since then but have not heard anything. It has been about a week. So this was not the only inquiry was not answered.

I can also understand that you are trying to resolve wireless issues and make sure that it works well before you provide users with solution. At the same time I am worried that maybe there is a very simple way to solve the issue, like replacing metal cover or part of it with plexiglass or something.

Basically what I am hearing from all this is in either scenario is "Soon soon..." which is the same thing that has been said since the very beginning and never materialized and I almost lost all hope.

I have been contemplating on giving up, ripping the guts out and replacing with Raspberry Pi and TinGy or gShield on Due and trying to hack it together with Chillipepper or similar. Afterall [gofabmo.org] website says that fabmo runs on RPI + GShield or BBB + GShield. Unfortunately there is not enough good documentation to have an easy time building it as far as I found.

If you were in my situation what would you do ? Keep waiting, give up ?
Re: New Board Update for V1
March 28, 2016 04:36PM
I can understand why you’d be a little apprehensive about waiting on a trade-in for your handibot v1. As many inside and outside of handibot will point out, we’ve never been that good at estimating our time on projects. Though it isn’t always that the projects are more complicated than we’re expecting them to be but rather that the needs around the shop shift and we find ourselves pulled in a number of different directions.

ShopBot has grown to a healthy size; handibot on the other hand is still relatively small. The team in our building consists of Earl and Andrey assembling handibots, Andy doing sales and shipping and me doing design of products, manufacturing of parts, purchasing, tech support and whatever else that I can do to try and make sure that the tools we sell get to our customers in a timely manner. When things speed up like they are right now with the release, I usually drop whatever development I’m doing to help out our production guys. We still rely on the marketing team at ShopBot for our website and advertising and the FabMo team that is almost entirely working on the handibot implementation of the software.

All this to say that even after these three years we’re still figuring out how to scale up with a small team. Thankfully we don’t really have any “big” customers to serve yet. Orders come in one or two at a time and we can try to keep a steady flow moving through production. This really means that no one customer is any more important than another.

Speaking just for myself I try to prioritize the work time that I have towards projects that 1. Have been in the ether for way too long (this thread points out a prime example of that type) 2. Have been frequently requested by a number of customers 3. Have the potential to open up a new market for our tools. Of course, at the end of the day if I look at our board for orders and there are names in red that haven’t received their order within their promised lead time, then I feel like I’ve really failed for the day—so that will always be my top priority.

I’m curious to know how the folks at Inventables and MakerBot manage their time—I suppose their scale is a little different. They’ve committed to a design that works and are able to have it mass produced. That has seemed attractive to me if we reach their scale—but also the idea of giving up my ability to constantly fix and tweak my product makes me shudder! Just a week before launch I redesigned the x-axis on the handibot 2 and used a ShopBot desktop to cut 25 copies of the new parts that our machine shop couldn’t deliver in time. Today I changed the design of the new hood so that Andrey could assemble them more easily. While I’m writing this I’m picking out new packaging materials that I’ll use to address a customer’s comment about too many “fuzzies” clinging to their tool out of the box.

I really enjoy the back and forth relationship with our customers and I really hope that the community continues to grow so that we can all benefit from each others’ input. I’ll try not to have eyes bigger than my stomach going forward and keep some semblance of a timeline. I hope that we’ve got something for you soon Boris; I’m glad that you’ve been such an involved supporter since the beginning.

Now for the specifics of your post: Acrylic cover is a good idea. The only trick with the HB1 is that the electronics are mounted on the cover for use as a heat sink. I moved them to the back of the aluminum plate that stiffens the x-axis on the new handibot so that I could get rid of that metal cover. I did that because I hated that spaghetti of wires that came out when I opened the back of a handibot. It turned out to be a happy accident that it also allowed FabMo to work without an antenna. A window may be an option but it may make reception very directional. Good communication is essential to making FabMo feel smooth and seamless—so I think in the end an antenna will be necessary (and easier to install on old tools). I heard talk of the antenna today over at ShopBot and I’ll follow up again throughout the week and try to let everyone know what’s up when I have news.

Re: New Board Update for V1
March 28, 2016 09:23PM
Hello Boris, Mark, et al.

Just wanted to jump in and add a couple thoughts to the thread. As Brian suggested, it has been somewhat harder than we had hoped to get FabMo to a user-ready state for Handibots and other digital-fab tools. But we're getting there, and we're pretty enthusiastic about it.

There's a good description of the basic idea of the FabMo platform, in its current form, as it relates to Handibot, here. And, the GitHub FabMo site has been quite active with work if you've checked it out.

Of course, we're really excited about the new V2 Handibot and the ideas and suggestions that Brian has been able to incorporate into it. And, we're looking forward to getting some of them out into the world in the next few weeks, with FabMo making its debut on them.

That said, we are strongly committed to making FabMo an enabler for digital fabrication broadly, both for subtractive CNC tools, and for additive tools. We believe it will be a great integrating platform for fabrication equipment. We are building in great motion as well as new and convenient usability. Our first step in getting it out will be to make it available for early Handibots. We want the update to be simple and straightforward; and, I expect it will be as we work out the details and get a bit of experience with the first few V2's in coming days. I expect you will eventually be as enthusiastic as we are ...

Our plan is to offer a number of different update/upgrade options, from just getting a FabMo Control Card, to transforming a V1 to a V2 Handibot. We'll lay those out in the next few weeks. I'm pretty sure there will be an option to suit most people, and we look forward to helping Handibotters evolve their tools as a dynamic product.

We'll get more pictures and info up here and in the blog. For the moment, you can get some ideas about the new tool and the look and feel of FabMo from the Manual.

Ted Hall, Handibot/ShopBot
Re: New Board Update for V1
April 12, 2016 05:24PM
@Ted, Brian,

What is my fastest option for getting HB v2 or the upgraded board. Can I buy a V2 and once I have it have a some kind of trade in option for my V1. Or can I get a meaningful discount for V2 and then give you time to develop V1 upgrade options and then be in a better place to make a decision once I have options.

I am working on putting together a local Makerspace in my area and would love to make use of a tool that does not require to be wired to Windows device and can be overall more accessible.
Re: New Board Update for V1
May 23, 2016 03:55PM
Have the upgrade paths from the V1 (Kickstarter) to V2 been published yet?

Re: New Board Update for V1
May 27, 2016 03:17PM

We don't have any new info on this yet unfortunately...

Re: New Board Update for V1
June 14, 2016 10:12AM
Brian Owen, ShopBot Wrote:
> Richard,
> We don't have any new info on this yet
> unfortunately...
> Brian

Brian/Ted - I sincerely try to avoid coming across as complaining but I believe I have some of the same feelings that has Boris expressed. When I subscribed to the KickStarter there were promises of apps to be forthcoming, to date I don't believe that has been delivered. There has been a lot of chatter about V1-V2 upgrade paths, numerous comments about something promised that is "coming in the next few weeks" and so on, and a very poor track record of delivery. In specific Ted stated in this thread on March 28 that the upgrade path was due in a few weeks. I cannot help but feel shortchanged. I am expressing my frustration, and my inference is that HandiBot is not getting the resources necessary to deliver on promises made.

There are other examples but I don't want to belabor the point, however I would like to see your current commitments delivered upon. Please take this as constructive criticism, much about the tool itself is excellent, and there has been steady improvements.

Re: New Board Update for V1
June 28, 2016 09:38PM
Another month has gone by. Any news?
Re: New Board Update for V1
July 05, 2016 09:58AM
Boris et al.

Was visiting the FabMo lab over at ShopBot and saw the first batch of handibot v1 FabMo boards being built. They look just about ready to me but I would not expect them to be ready to go until the end of the month. I asked about the price for the boards--because we are buying these in small runs the board along with all the components added for the wifi connectivity is going to run about $350.

We're meeting again later this week and I'll ask for an update on where we are.

Re: New Board Update for V1
August 09, 2016 06:21PM

Can we get an update on the FabMo Control Card upgrade please?


Re: New Board Update for V1
August 30, 2016 11:52AM
Small ping... looking to do a few projects where I'd prefer to run the code from Fabmo instead of a Windows tablet / do a little app development.
Re: New Board Update for V1
October 17, 2016 11:33AM
Morning everyone! Ted has been working really hard over the past few weeks to document and assemble some FabMo upgrade kits for early model handibots. We've got them up in the store here: [store.handibot.com]

We'll also be providing a $50 rebate to people who want to return their old control cards after getting familiar with the new FabMo system.
Re: New Board Update for V1
October 17, 2016 01:34PM
Re: New Board Update for V1
October 26, 2016 04:11PM
Alright Mike, yours should have reached you by now! (I held it back for a couple days to see if we might be releasing a new software version that you'd want delivered on the card). Let us know how it goes!
Re: New Board Update for V1
October 31, 2016 11:57AM
Got it in hand - will probably be a weekend project but I'll try to document the process and see how it all goes.
Re: New Board Update for V1
November 04, 2016 09:48AM

Hopefully you'll see the other thread that I just posted about getting your tool online--but just in case, check out the doc at the top of our support page for instructions to work around a recent bug that we've encountered: [handibot.com]

Also, Ted built a custom set of macros for handibot 1 owners but they may need to be re-loaded on your fabmo card once you update to the most recent version (to fix the connectivity bug). We're working on getting a package of macros put online for handibot 1 owners to download and install. Your tool will work just fine now...it'll just be using a strange homing routine.
Re: New Board Update for V1
January 11, 2017 06:46PM
I just purchased the Fabmo Upgrade kit for V1. Which I we have been waiting for since dev kit shipped. But then I saw this in the timeline on the blog:

-V1.x to V2.0 Upgrade Service/Exchange 12/2016 [4]

Is this something that is possible and/or coming soon ?
Re: New Board Update for V1
January 11, 2017 09:50PM
Aww c'mon Boris--don't we get a little bit of credit for finally getting the FabMo upgrade out!? tongue sticking out smiley

So--Full tool upgrades. The way that it's going to work is we will sell a refurbished Handibot 2 at a decent discount in exchange for Handibot 1.1 and earlier models in the field. From these early model handibots we can re-use the motors, rails and some of the electronics (and a few machined parts)--plus we assume you don't want to pay again for the design software. We had considered trying to find a way to pack and ship upgrade kits but the process is going to be a bit tricky and I'd feel better if the upgrades were tested here in the factory before going out into the world.
Re: New Board Update for V1
January 16, 2017 12:35AM
Can you give a price breakdown, example ?

It is not really clear.

How much is this going to cost.

The original handibot cost something like 2700 new one is 2870.
If we are getting a "decent discount" as you said say it is 1000, but you are also exchanging it for V1, what residual value do I get for V1 I am turning in.
How much will upgrade cost ?

If I still have to pay 1700 but I am giving machine that cost almost as much then it does not seem to make sense.

If you saying that I get 1000 for my old machine and 1000 discount for new machine and I just have to pay 870 for new machine or something like that, then sign me up.

What about base and rotary attachment are they compatible with V2 ?
Re: New Board Update for V1
January 18, 2017 08:05PM
Any update on this. I would love to know weather I should hold out for upgrade buy new one or something else.
Re: New Board Update for V1
January 19, 2017 04:31PM
Ok--so the list of parts that are re-useable from version 1 to version 2 are as follows:

vCarve software
DeWalt Router
Power Supply
X Rails and Bearings
Y Rails and Bearings
Z Rails and Bearings
X Motor
Y Motor
Z Motor
Z Axis Gusset Block (little metal block under Z motor plate)
Anti-backlash nut brackets (T shaped metal parts) on X and Z axis
Metal brackets that hold the handles
Stop Switch
Go Switch
24 V Relay

We had talked about re-using the gecko drivers, but these are so prone to failure due to any short on the board that we decided they should not be re-used.

So with the cost of all of those components deducted from the cost of the tool--plus the labor to tear down and rebuild each exchange tool--it is looking like the re-worked tools will still cost about $2000.
Re: New Board Update for V1
January 20, 2017 09:01AM
This is a no-deal for me.

Can I get half of that discount for being early adopter, for waiting for 3 years, for being patient, etc, etc etc.... And just buy a new machine right now instead ?
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