Z-asix issues

I finally received my Handibot yesterday and am ready to start using it. I followed the directions got it all hooked up to network and made my first test cut per the Quick Launch instructions. I noticed on the depth of the cut was shallower than that of the original cut in the base board that was attached. I did the zero set routine off of the touch pad and the following test cut was in the air. Zero set routine again and that time it gouges the pattern into the material probably 1/4' too deep. Tried this several times and no repeatability either in the air or too deep. Did I miss something fundamental in the instructions or is something wrong with the Bot?

Thanks,
John

John,

That is unusual. When we test the handibots in the shop before we send them out--we adjust the settings for that z-zero routine to match the specific tool that we're testing (variability in thickness of parts means that the distance from the top of the z-zero plate to the bottom of the tool isn't always exactly 0.75"). So I think that those settings are correct--(the distance setting is under the "preferences" tab in the FireUp app). With it being somewhat inconsistent, I'm worried that some rough handling of the tool during shipping may have affected the alignment on the Z axis--causing the motor to stall when trying to bring the bit down to cut.
To check this--lets try manually zeroing the bit. Use the keypad in the fabmo dashboard to move the tool down until the bit is almost touching the material. Then use the red-handled allen key that came with your tool to loosen the two router bracket screws--this will let the router slip down and bring the bit into contact with the material. Tighten the screws to lock the router in place and then hit the orange "0" button next to the Z axis position readout to manually zero the axis.
If you try running the test cut again and it does not return to the correct height and complete the cut--Let me know and I can run you through a couple of quick fixes to re-adjust the alignment of the z axis.

Brian

Thanks for the quick response. I will give that a try tomorrow. Dose that explain why sometimes it cuts in the air and others it is too deep. It seems as though the Z is drifting. I guess to confirm the drift I can zero as you mentioned above move it around manually and homing then send Z back to zero and see where it lands. If it is consistent after several tries it is not drift.

Thanks,
John

Hi John,

Just to clarify, after doing the manual rezeroing that Brian suggests, as a first step re-run the file and check the depth and z-zero location before manually moving the tool around with the arrow keys or trying any homing or re-zeroing.

Also when moving the tool around with the arrow keys be especially careful about going too far and hitting the stops. It's easy to do, believe me!

Bill

I had some Z-axis issues similar to what you are describing when I started. Here is my 2 cents:

I would try taking the router completely out of the unit and zero the Handibot to HOME.

After homing the Handibot, I would move the Z-axis right in the middle. When that is done - pop the router into the Handibot and let it slide until the tool touches the top of the workpiece.

If the tool won't reach the top of the workpiece - you probably have to move the router clamps to a lower position. If you are using something like a V-bit that is short - you may have to lower the z-axis just a little further - but you should still give yourself some extra travel on the bottom.

My guess is you are hitting the hard stop on the bottom and it throws the rest of your cut off.

The Z-plate is great - but personally I always Zero in the manner listed above. The router comes out of the Handibot so easily I find it is the best way to zero the tool. Plus - it ensures I have enough travel to cut all the way through my workpiece if I have to.

Yea...the z zero plate was one of the most common requests with the original handibot so we decided to include one in the new version--I didn't want it to be something that could come loose and get lost so I made it part of the frame. However, the difficulty in zeroing the Z on the original handibot was mainly due to poor visibility and access to the cutting area (in my opinion). Those two things being much improved in this version make the Z zero plate less necessary and I always zero in the way RS is describing.

But the good thing is, we can do it either way now!

I was able to zero to material and run it a couple of times and it was good. I think the rookie was hitting the wrong button and it was loosing zero. It did not cut in the air or gouge into the material. I will play some more tomorrow and see if repeatability is there.

Thanks for the feedback!
John

All rookie mistakes. Unit is working great!

Glad to hear it John!! Let us know if there's anything else we can help out with!

I am having the same problem. My first attempt at the test cut didn't work -- just cut air. I followed the advice and zeroed the z axis, and the router bit kept on pushing dowward and bent the zero plate. So I attempted to bend it back, then saw this thread in the forum. So I tried Brian's manual method and this time it made the test cut -- but way too deep. I tried zeroing again. This time the router stopped at the zero plate, but the test cut was still way too deep (essentially the same as the first deep cut). Help please!!!!

Update: I manually zero it is again and, without touching anything, made a test cut that worked. However, I had to do so without replacing the dust collection bracket. And anytime I use the controls to manually move the router, the Z access gets completely out of whack. For example, I can zero it manually, then raise the router, then lower it, and it will not read correctly



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2016 10:24AM by Brian King.

I can confirm that no matter how many times I manually zero, it will come out of alignment the moment I manually move the router.

If, however, I enter a value manually into the Z axis and click go, it stays in alignment.

I would really like to be able to move the tool around with the controls to get full functionality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/20/2016 11:36AM by Brian King.

Brian,

I'm following a discussion on our internal tech support chat that seems to be either about your issue or one like it. I'll follow up here with details as they sort through the possible causes.

Brian

Brian,

Thanks for reporting this issue - I have some follow up questions:


1. Have you been running files with your handibot, and if so, what kind of files? (Shopbot files ie: *.sbp files, or G-Code files: *.g/nc/gcode)
2. Have you made use of the "Touch and Go" app that ships on the tool.
3. When you say you "zero the Z axis manually" what do you mean exactly? Are you driving the tool to the work-surface and clicking the orange zero button next to the Z readout in the DRO? Or are you actually using the routine with the plate to find the zero position?

There are a few possible issues here, if you can follow up with the answers to these questions, I'm sure we can sort this out.

Thanks

Thanks for the follow-up, Brian.

1. The only jobs I have sent to the handibot have been directly from the Fabmo interface -- the "first cut" protocol and some "sketch" jobs.
2. I don't know what the "touch and go" app is. Sorry. I am a newbie to this and all CNC routing.
3. By manually zeroing the Z axis, I mean getting the router tip just touching the stock using the down arrow in the interface, and then manually entering 0 in the Z axis field in the Fabmo interface. I have also tried using the zero plate, but (a) it hasn't actually zeroed the Z axis correctly and (b) one of the times the router bit didn't stop and literally bent the zero plate down to the stock. I bent it back as best I could, but I would love a new plate to install.

To sum up, if I avoid the arrow controls in the Fabmo interface, things seem to work ok...But the Z axis zero feature simply doesn't work, and any time I use the arrow controls I lose zero on the Z axis.

Brian,

To zero the tool manually, you're going to want to use the orange zero buttons next to the position display, rather than entering a value of 0.0 for the Z-Axis. The zero button tells the tool to assign the current location to zero - entering a number in the position display tells the tool to drive the toolhead to that location

Do this to manually zero the tool:

1. Use the keypad to drive the tool to the work surface
2. Click the orange [ 0 ] button next to the Z axis position display. Confirm that the Z-Axis position gets updated to the value 0.000
3. Use the keypad to drive the Z axis up above the work surface (being careful not to drive it too high and crash it into the stop)
4. Enter 0.0 in the Z-Axis position display, to confirm that you can drive the tool back to the zero position.

Let us know here how this works for you.

I apologize - I wasn't clear. I'm manually zeroing just as you described. Once the Z axis has been zeroed, I'm manually entering new positive Z axis values to move the router rather than use the arrow controls, which cause everything to come out of zero.

So this obviously means the machine will zero and hold its zero -- but only if I avoid the arrow controls. And the automatic z axis zero function doesn't work either. These are the issues that need to be addressed - especially as I get into multiple tool path cuts. Thanks.

Brian,

When you're using the swing out z zero plate, are you first clipping the alligator clip to the bit? It has to be used so that the circuit is completed when the bit touches the plate.

You can test it by touching the alligator clip to the swing out plate...The #1 input indicator should light up in the red DRO panel.

Bill

Bill - I am using the alligator clip. I suspect something went wrong that one time.
Brian

Brian,

I apologize if you've already been asked this, but can you report the version of the software on your tool? To check: Go to the configuration and look in the top right corner. (On mobile it may be collapsed in a menu) the software version looks like v1.2.3.

Hi - I'm on v1.4.2. The simple updater function says it's the latest version.

And now, when I try to run a job via vcarve, the router runs on and then immediately turns off even though it's trying to cut the job. Wasn't quick enough on the stop button and lost a bit. Needless to say I'm having a hard time with this machine!

Hey Brian,

Sorry to hear that things are seemingly going downhill! I'll get a new bit out to you tomorrow--PM me which one it was.

I'm not as much of a software expert as some--but I'd like to take a look at the code that you're sending to the tool from vCarve. Would you mind attaching the files to a forum post so that I can take a look?

I'm hoping to hear more about what might be causing this z movement error and what we can do to fix it--if that involves sending you a new control card then we'll definitely do that right away.

Brian

It's clearly not my day. I am the Director of Innovation at a K-8 school and am not a tech novice (even if I am new to CNC)....but I can't even send a PM in this forum. I keep getting a message that I "did not provide the correct code for the spam prevention check." But there's nowhere to input a code. I even took a screen shot of the PM interface to show that there's no CAPTCHA or anything similar, and the forum won't let me attach it to this post as a JPG or PNG! Tells me it is not a valid attachment. Ahhh!!!!!! Feeling a bit cursed today...

Here's a workaround link to the screen shot

And here's my "PM" to Brian:

Brian - thank you for the help. It was the ONSRUD 61-040 1/8" Straight bit that broke.

I'm no software expert either, but this strikes me as a firmware/software problem. I'll post some vcarve files in the forum tomorrow when I am back at that computer. They appear to work fine in software preview mode in Fabmo.

At some point, will it be possible to speak live to you or someone else? I work at a school -- one of your Handibot target markets. And as a school, we probably need more support early on than forums and emails can provide.

Thank you,
Brian

Brian,

I will be calling you in the morning to help resolve your issue. I apologize for the trouble you've been having with your machine.

If there is a time that works especially well to talk through these issues, please let me know here, or privately at ryan.sturmer@shopbottools.com

I can't thank Ryan and Brian and the Shopbot team enough. Ryan was kind enough to spend more than an hour on the phone with me today to ferret out the issues. For the sake of anyone who might be interested, here are the essential lessons:

1. As currently written, the Quick Start XZY zero macro is misleading. It zeroes X and Y, and it assigns Z to 0, but it DOES NOT actually zero the Z axis to the stock that you want to cut. That's why my first attempt at the quick start test cut only cut air....Someone experienced in CNC would catch this immediately. Someone like me might not , and that's probably true of many people who purchase a Handibot for use in a school.

2. The techniques in the forum for manually zeroing the Z axis work great. But I didn't realize that once zeroed, the slightest bump of the top of the Z axis or either side of the X or Y axes will ruin your zero. That's why I thought the tool would lose zero whenever I used the manual arrow controls in Fabmo, when in fact it was operator error.

3. The automatic Z axis zero function using the alligator clip and plate needs an adjustment for me in the software, probably because my zero plate is a little bent. It's about 1/8" high of actual zero.

In addition to these lessons, we also discussed how useful it would be to have a database of simple .crv files that were designed and tested on and for the Handibot. They could be used as controls for both troubleshooting and teaching/learning. Part of my problem yesterday was that I am a total newbie with Vcarve, and clearly I am doing something wrong in the software -- which made it hard to know if the problem was Handibot firmware or me. At this point I am pretty sure it was me.

Anyway, I'm excited to continue the journey. Thanks everyone for the help!

Brian, Looking back statement #1 above is where I was having the most trouble. I was also gouging into the material. Not sure what I was doing wrong to cause that. All of that was rookie mistakes and I am moving right along with no issues. It let the air out of my sails when I got it and it was "broken" but, now that I know how to use it I am very happy. The support from the guys at Shopbot/Handibot is outstanding!

Just noticed that when I started this thread that I can't spell Z-axis.

Glad to hear you are up and going!